Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Katz meow?
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46755		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  J De Rocher [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Katz meow?
So, around about this time last year, there was something of a kerfuffle and a rumpus over a new mystery tonewood for tops called Katz. Has anyone here actually built a guitar with a Katz top since then?
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
That's the dude on Ebay that names all of his wood. Pretty sure it's just Lutz Spruce and the discrepancy was over the name and who coined it etc. Too much soap opera for me but I'm pretty sure that it's the same thing as Lutz.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
I'm sure this is the Katz's meow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J---aiyznGQ
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Apparently Katz and Lutz are different.
Some people were saying at one time if may have been Hemlock, but only speculation.
Author:  JasonMoe [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
I have a couple sets of Katz. Its not lutz. I torrified mine over a campfire. I haven't started using it yet. It smells different and has a great tap tone.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Mario Decosta is a good guy and my suggestion is to contact him and/or check out his forum, sprucetonewood.com and ask the membership if any of them have built with it yet. He has an active forum with some pretty good builders on it and very possibly you will get a reply from someone who has built with it.

I know that some of you are not keen over some of Mario's creative.... marketing efforts. My experience with him over some years now has been nothing but positive and his wares often represent very good value.
Author:  Michael [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Thanks Hesh. My experience also.

Michael
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
I remember the rumpus but must have tuned out before the kerfuffle got going. :)

My recollection is the same as Colin's FWIW.

I'd be curious to know for sure and hear what people who have used it think.
Author:  DannyV [ Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Seems to me I saw something on Mario's Facebook page (I think it's his). Cumpiano built something. Best guitar in the world if I'm not mistaken. duh

Kidding of course about the best guitar crack. You could probably find it on his forum.
Author:  Ken Jones [ Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Yep, Cumpiano built with it. Had good things to say as I recall. That said, I'm not a fan of Mario's bluster and adversarial nature. I'm on a couple of his Facebook pages and his rhetoric is always somewhat confrontational.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
When I read about that new find a while back, I had a sneaky suspicion it was as Colin North suggests, western hemlock. I have come across a few chucks of logs suitable to cut into guitar tops. I love the stuff. Easy to work with, great tap tone. About the same weight as fine textured Sitka, and the UFSF lab says it's 12% stronger.

It's not very feesable to target and cut into soundboards, because the tree usually has these black pitch sipes scattered through the log. That's no problem for molding, flooring and framing lumber. But very unsightly and unsellable for guitar tops, except if someone was going to paint the top solid color.
We do have some dandies on the shelf. That is, Western Hemlock. And a some others that have bearclaw too.
http://www.alaskawoods.com/products.php ... etail=true
Author:  Coach71 [ Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Not western hemlock. This is very light stuff. The density of my sets run between 20lbs ft3 and 22lbs ft3. Awesome tonewood, as Cumpiano and others realize.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Coach71 wrote:
Not western hemlock. This is very light stuff. The density of my sets run between 20lbs ft3 and 22lbs ft3. Awesome tonewood, as Cumpiano and others realize.


How about a Genus/Species then? I don't get the secrecy, it seems silly. Nobody else is out there claiming to have some undiscovered holy grail of tonewood to call by a pet name like "katz meow" or "black magic". As a builder I couldn't look at a client square in the eye and tell him that the soundboard is "katz meow". That sounds silly on so many levels. I'd rather just say that I don't know what it is, but then again I'd never blindly buy something unless I knew exactly what it was. Furthermore I'd never sell anything that I didn't know what it was, it's just really good because Cumpiano (who many players are completely unfamiliar with) says it's good. I'm not trying to be rude but Im sure many here can relate to what I'm saying about this mystery wood. It's silly, and a very poor marketing ploy.

If you one something superior, they should claim it and own it. If one is worried about others figuring something out and encroaching, then said person probably doesnt have a superior product.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
I thought in the past all trades/crafts are all based on secret formulas and method? That was how they kept the trade alive...
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Yes, he won't reveal what is is, 'so as not to tip off his competitors.'

How can I buy and use it if I can't put the identification on the Lacey forms?

I'm curious, but not enough to go through the rigmarole.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
I wouldn't even consider using a mystery wood for a top. It would be totally unacceptable to me to have to tell a potential buyer of a guitar I built that I don't know what kind of wood the top is made of.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
meddlingfool wrote:
Yes, he won't reveal what is is, 'so as not to tip off his competitors.'

How can I buy and use it if I can't put the identification on the Lacey forms?

I'm curious, but not enough to go through the rigmarole.


Glad to see I'm not the only one. I'm not a veteran builder of many years but I'd bet that the market for such a product is reserved for rookies that are looking for an edge outside of getting better at their building skill.
Author:  Greg Maxwell [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Personally, I have been completely turned off by the silly wood names, the used car salesman style of hype marketing, the abrasive moderation tone of the forum, and the butt kissing of a certain author.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
meddlingfool wrote:
Yes, he won't reveal what is is, 'so as not to tip off his competitors.'

How can I buy and use it if I can't put the identification on the Lacey forms?

I'm curious, but not enough to go through the rigmarole.


It's funny. BRW is widely regarded as the best wood one can obtain for back and sides. For the soundboard there's all kinds of options but for me spruce can't go wrong. There's no secrets there, consumers want to know what they are buying. A builder is a consumer in that sense selling other consumers their product. As such I can't help but compare this to "the magic bean" from Jack and the Beanstalk. Comical really.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Greg Maxwell wrote:
Personally, I have been completely turned off by the silly wood names, the used car salesman style of hype marketing, the abrasive moderation tone of the forum, and the butt kissing of a certain author.


I agree. "Creative Marketing" comes off as lipstick on a pig to me. Just my opinion and I'm sure that others differ but again- what consumer doesn't GAS what they are getting unless it's free?!
Author:  Coach71 [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
It is Spruce. Its stiffness / density ratio is very high, so not sure what's not to like about it, rookie or vet.

Dont understand the negativity guys have towards the naming of trees. I think it's a really good idea (and more copycat dealers are now doing so). I have sets from most trees, so when I order I know what I'm getting in terms of color, grain, claw, density, etc. If another builder refers to his Wolferine or Curly Bear top, I generally know what it looks like.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
I think the problem is that while Wolverine, Curly Bear, and Katz may mean something to a small circle of builders, they mean absolutely nothing to players who are looking to buy a guitar. Sitka spruce, Adirondack spruce, Engelmann spruce [:Y:] , maybe even Lutz [:Y:] , but Katz? idunno.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most of the named trees are Lutz so at least for those you have an idea of what the wood actually is. In contrast, Katz is idunno for builders as well as guitar buyers because the identity of this wood is a secret.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
If it's very high density Spruce just say so, it's much appreciated. I don't think anyone minds the names as long as there is a genus/species to accompany it. I am relatively new to selling guitars but I am selling a very specific product. I could not say- "this is the best (inset random name here) you've ever seen". I can say "this is probably the best Dalbergia Retusa that you will ever find". I hope that makes sense. People want to know what they are buying.

If you have the best, most dense spruce- what's to hide? own it and claim it and I'll bet you 5 sets of that spruce that more people would buy it.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
The naming and name dropping are tiresome but not deal breakers.

Not being able to fill out the Lacey forms is.
Author:  Coach71 [ Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Katz meow?
Does Lacey differentiate between Englemann, Sitka, White, or a hybrid of those?
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/